![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
alexandriawebRight let me start by making something VERY FUCKING CLEAR.
I love animals, I respect animals, two major reasons RIGHT THERE why I chose to go Vegan.
I am also 100% AGAINST FOX HUNTING, it's cruel and inhumane.
I do however understand the circle of life. I understand that you start with plants, herbivore eats the plants, carnivore eats the herbivore, bigger carnivore eats the smaller carnivore etc (lets ignore things like omnivores and scavengers for simplicity's sake right now, partially because they don't really matter to much in the following rant).
So in ideal Britain you have: Plants grow, field mice and various birds (ok, ok they eat insects to if you want to be picky) eat the plants, foxes eat the mice and birds, lynxes and wolves eat the foxes and lynxes and wolves generally beat the crap out of each other, and maybe are hunted by man (but NOT TO EXTINCTION).
Yeah, but we aren't in ideal Britain, we lost Lynxes in about 420 AD, wolves in the 17th century and foxes in the 18th century.
Yes you read that right, the foxes in the UK right now? Yeah they were imported from France because ours were extinct and the fox hunters were board.
I don't have a problem with the foxes that are here being here since our own are long gone, but we have an unbalanced eco system right now and that's why things like culls have to happen. We as humans made it this way, and unfortunately we as humans are the only ones right now who can solve that.
The way it is right now we have: Plants grow, small animals (many of which are on the endangered species list) eat the plants, foxes eat the smaller animals, foxes don't have a natural predator any more, fox population EXPLODES.
So what are we supposed to do? Nothing? Let all the smaller animals be wiped out, because let's face it who needs field mice anyway OR do we attempt to rebalance the eco system as best we can?
Surely if you REALLY care about animals the latter makes more sense?
Apparently not, apparently I am evil for merely suggesting that we control the poor ickle fuzzy fwoxes.
Some excerpts from a conversation I had over msn with my mother on Tuesday (not the full thing because I'm making this public and I haven't told her I'm using bits of a conversation I had with her, also excuse the bears thing, I hadn't researched what eats foxes yet because this was kind of sprung on me with no warning, also "hi" is an emote on my msn and therefore doesn't show so I'm not typing like a chav I promise):
Alexandria Web-:
ok, well since the hunts ended the population has boomed and they don't have a natural predetor, what else are they supposed to do? At least it's humane. It's sad but it has to happen to keep the population controled, it's the same as any other animal we introduced into the eco system that shouldn't be here.
Allyson says:
(angry face emote)
Alexandria Web- says:
I'm sorry but it's true, foxes are an unatural part of the eco system and there isn't anytng to stop them over populating. It's sad that someone had to die for people to realise that, and it's sad the foxes have to die. But we as humans put them there in the first place. I'm not advocating wiping them all out, just controling them.
Allyson says:
so you dont agree with reintroduction of extinct species tyhen
Alexandria Web- :
I do, but you can't just reintroduce them willy nilly. Wolves would be a great reintroduction, because then they'd control foxes and deer etc for us, wch is natural and the way it should be, but you'd also have to bring bears back soon after because you'd likely end up with too many wolves otherwise.
Allyson says:
Hang on a minute so the Foxes dont belong here and have nothing to controle there population so its ok to kill them
Well with my eye colour and other features I dont belong here either so maybe we should just get rid of me too
Alexandria Web-says:
Foxes were brought here unaturally in large ammounts with no natural predetors. That's totally different to Humans GRADULLY ending up here, where we did have natural predetors when we got here, and yeah actually we are overpopulating (don't you watch the news?) Aren't you in favour of all ts replanting native trees and stuff and getting rid of the forgien species? Exactly same, only trees aren't
fluffy and cute.
Allyson says:
ok lets get rid of all non native species then. Pretty boring diet cabbage , leeks and grain nom nom nom
The truth is we have briought lots of things to this country that do not belong here, and we cant really do much about it now.
Yes we did bring the foxes here but it isnt the foxes fault it was acting on instinct, and I think it is wrong to kill it for that
We dont even kill people who murder, but we can kill animals who harm peiople
Oh sorry thats different because they are just dumb animals
Alexandria Web- says:
Mam you're clearly not understanding here. It's ok to bring tngs in, but it has to be done GRADULY so that stuff doesn't go bannanas and take over (rabbits, bindweed, Sycamore trees), because that unbalences the eco system and causes other tngs to end up becoming extint because of it ( there red squirrels). I know the foxes are acting on instinct, but if we don't keep their population under
control (wch is what wolves, bears and other tngs we wiped out that eat foxes would do) then we'll loose other species that we're trying to save (voles, hedehogs etc). Also you know I don't tnk their dumb animals
Allyson says:
I understand perfectly what you are saying and I agree with you. If species were introduced nowadays they would hopefully be reintroduced gradually(Beavers in Scotland)
However the foxes, Grey Squirells, Japenese Bindweed and Sycamore have not been introduced now they were intriduced some toime ago when people didnt really care as long as they got what they wanted. You can not bl;ame the animakls for this.
I agree we should have natural predators for them eg wolves
but this wont hgappen because the rich folk are worried the wolves woill kill the dear and they wont be able to charge people lots of money to kill them instead
despite the fact that they have to have a dear cull every year because there are too many
Alexandria Web- says:
I'm not blaming the animals? How did you end up coming to that conclusion.? You still aren't etting ts at all. Foexes were introduced, ok? With me there? For hundreds of years there wasn't a problem with them because fox hunting (wch I still tnk is cruel and wrong) kept the popultion under control in the absense of a natural predetor. Fox hunting ends, fox population boom happens, allready
endangered species become even more endangered.
What do you do?
Just leave voles and other endangeroud animals that foxes eat to become extinct?
Chase the foxes around and say "Sorry sir you can't eat that"
Allyson says:
Inroduce a ntural preadator as you said, but as I said this isnt going to happen
Alexandria Web- says:
Also can you keep your predudice against people with more money than you out of ts, it has notng to with it. Who was it wanted to bring wolves back? Oh yeah a rich guy.
Allyson says:
Well much as I would like to continue this I have to go now
see you later
bye bye
Alexandria Web- says:
So if a natural predetor isn't introduced what do you do?
Allyson says:
I dont kbnow, but we dont kill murders so why do we think it is ok to kill animals
see you later
Call me crazy but surely corporal punishment *salutes* and people with lots of money are completely separate issues?
The worst bit is I KNOW she's said most of that because she just doesn't understand, and I know she doesn't understand because those are the exact same arguments I'd have used when I didn't understand and I was being brain washed by PETA (don't even get me started on them, that's another rant competley).
So yeah, that was Tuesday, and today is Sunday, what made me post?
The realisation that I hadn't hit like on "Lets keep fox hunting banned", I had actually hit like on "We fucking hate the Tories for no apparent reason, and we're going to keep on eating up every single anti-conservative block o' text the daily fail writes with a fucking spoon" (clearly that's far to many letters for the character count so I guess that's why they went for the first tittle).
Today they posted a link to this:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/7/stop-the-tory-persecution-of-foxes/268220126/taf
For those of you that are link-o-phobes, it's THE most un-biased petition IN THE WORLD EVER [/sarcasam]
What it really is infact is this:
"Not satisfied with a planned UK badger cull, it has been reported today that Boris Johnson Tory MP & Lord Mayor of London is calling for an urban fox cull. This follows media reports of a fox entering an East London house through open patio doors to a room where the child's parents were sat watching TV & found it's way to an upstairs bedroom where it simultaneously "mauled" 9 month old twin girls sleeping in separate cots, thus acting in every way against the natural instinct of foxes.
Media coverage to this incident have been biased inconsistent & intent on creating public hysteria towards a wild species that has coexisted peacefully alongside us in towns & cities since records on urban fox populations were made in 1930. Far from being an urban pest their main diet source is the rats that ARE considered a real problem in inner-city areas.
Wildlife experts including Terry Nutkins, Bill Oddie John Bryant & the RSPCA are speaking out in defence of foxes but it is well known that the Tory Party led by (hunter) David Cameron are happy to demonise foxes as part of their plan to repeal the Hunting with Dogs Act, & will take advantage of & fuel the ongoing media witch hunt.
Just a week ago a licensed gun owner shot & killed 12 people & injured 24 others in Cumbria. Just a day later David Cameron released a statement saying there would be "no knee-jerk reaction to ban shot guns" so it is quite ironic that after just one instance of a (yet to be adequately proven) fox attack a Tory MP is calling for a nationwide cull.
Conveniently by making a larger issue of fox populations this will act as an opening for the Conservatives to bring the pledged repeal of the ban to the House of Commons. It's a lame attempt to appear as though they are acting in the interests of the British public (75% of the population are currently against repeal) whilst the real issue & motive is their support of bloodsports!!
Please note, I have started this petition independently of Save Me. Org but I believe I speak for a large proportion of Save Me supporters & anti-hunt campaigners. My purpose is to send a link of this petition to the Conservatives, Lib Dems & also to the Nations media who's demonisation of foxes & unbalanced coverage of this story is leading to the extermination of foxes."
Why is mauled in air quotes? Are they trying to imply that actually what really happened was that the foxes tickled the child?
Yes, I know that what happened isn't typical fox behaviour and yes I do think it sucks that it took that to happen for people to realise that we simply have to many foxes, but surely that's what it is, a wake up call?
Notice no actual quote of what the wildlife experts said (I find it rather hard to believe Bill Oddie would be anti-cull since this is the man who thinks mink need to be eradicated since they aren't native and hates cat owners that don't bring their cats in at night).
No sources on any of the statistics, or any of the other "facts".
But the main thing is...People still use online petition sites? WTF?
So this is what I posted on the wall:
"foxes have no natural predators, they kill smaller, endangered animals, so in order for the smaller animals not to be wiped out we humans (ie: the reason the foxes have no natural predators) , have to control the fox populations in the way that lynxes or wolves would.
At last this way we're doing it humanely rather than going back to the barbarity of fox hunting.
Also what is with all the Tory prejudice on this page?"
To which I got back:
"@Louise.Are you also sayi9ng that ALL UK BIRDS OF PREY should be controlled too??as they too have no natural predators,but do kill rare species such as Woodlark,Stonechats etc.you cannort play god and pick and choose which species has the right to live and which has the right to die..I would happily chat to you on this subject as i have 30 years experience on it."
Correct me if I'm wrong but birds of prey have never had a predator bar humanity? Therefore they're taking their intended place in the eco system?
Isn't not culling foxes "picking and choosing which species has the right to live and which has the right to die?
Also is that someone pulling the "I'M OLDER THAN YOU I KNOW BETTER!" card on me? Oh dear *sigh*
"@ louise. Why against the tories? Camron is a lying snake. Think he's telling porkies about the deficit, cut public spending and cut taxes on mansion tax, people earning under 10k? If uk is that much in debt why cut taxes? He's saying this to make labour look worse than they are. He's a snake and can't be trusted. Oh well done to the uk government for helping with the bp crisis as we do earn large shares in bp. Come obama kick camrons ass."
I did what I always do in internet debates when someone tries to pull the "WAAAAAH YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE I SAAAAAAY SO!" card on me and asked for a source (coincidently if anybody wants sources on how the eco system works, I'm only to happy to give them and point you in the direction of my Science teachers from Primary School) apparently:
"@ louise its fact and you will see it sooner or later Cameron will be exposed for the scum he is. I don't like any politicians but Cameron and what the tories stand for (not just the fox hunting) is shocking. Christ he couldn't even win majority even though Brown done an awful job."
Best bit, apparently this guy is a Professor...Says a lot for our education system doesn't it?
At some point a girl with one of those cliché emo angles pics cuts in with:
"Killing any animal is wrong !! !! Whether it was a fox or not who attacked the brats it te PARENTS fault for being dumbass's !! If an animal kills a human good on it !! Because at the end of the day humans are killing animals every second. It's a bit of get their own back !"
I having just read THE MOST IDIOTIC THING ON THE PLANET snap. I admit, it was wrong of me to type back "Well I hope you're happy when one day a cow or something tramples you to death" (I don't wish anybody dead), but for goodness sake is that not the stupidest thing you've ever read?
Although I suppose it did save me the hassle of hitting the "un-fan" button or whatever it is these days as the page owner took offence, not before I got this though:
"Louise, you don't seem to be able to connect the media attempts to vilify foxes with the Tory pledge to repeal the ban. A headline in Fridays Guardian read "A cull of urban foxes won't work until townspeople distrust them as much as country folk" I am reading this as if it saying "a repeal of the hunting ban will not work until townspeople hate them as much as pro-hunt" because that is the only way I can rationalise the media witch hunt!!
Oh & BTW I don't know if it has escaped your attention but we would not be campaigning to protect the hunting act if the Tory party had not pledged to repeal it!!"
Can somebody give me an ACTUAL source on this "Tory pledge"? Because the only ones I've seen were posted on that page and were from the Sun and the Daily Mail. If anybody can give me an actual source I'll retract everything I said about the Conservatives.
I love animals, I respect animals, two major reasons RIGHT THERE why I chose to go Vegan.
I am also 100% AGAINST FOX HUNTING, it's cruel and inhumane.
I do however understand the circle of life. I understand that you start with plants, herbivore eats the plants, carnivore eats the herbivore, bigger carnivore eats the smaller carnivore etc (lets ignore things like omnivores and scavengers for simplicity's sake right now, partially because they don't really matter to much in the following rant).
So in ideal Britain you have: Plants grow, field mice and various birds (ok, ok they eat insects to if you want to be picky) eat the plants, foxes eat the mice and birds, lynxes and wolves eat the foxes and lynxes and wolves generally beat the crap out of each other, and maybe are hunted by man (but NOT TO EXTINCTION).
Yeah, but we aren't in ideal Britain, we lost Lynxes in about 420 AD, wolves in the 17th century and foxes in the 18th century.
Yes you read that right, the foxes in the UK right now? Yeah they were imported from France because ours were extinct and the fox hunters were board.
I don't have a problem with the foxes that are here being here since our own are long gone, but we have an unbalanced eco system right now and that's why things like culls have to happen. We as humans made it this way, and unfortunately we as humans are the only ones right now who can solve that.
The way it is right now we have: Plants grow, small animals (many of which are on the endangered species list) eat the plants, foxes eat the smaller animals, foxes don't have a natural predator any more, fox population EXPLODES.
So what are we supposed to do? Nothing? Let all the smaller animals be wiped out, because let's face it who needs field mice anyway OR do we attempt to rebalance the eco system as best we can?
Surely if you REALLY care about animals the latter makes more sense?
Apparently not, apparently I am evil for merely suggesting that we control the poor ickle fuzzy fwoxes.
Some excerpts from a conversation I had over msn with my mother on Tuesday (not the full thing because I'm making this public and I haven't told her I'm using bits of a conversation I had with her, also excuse the bears thing, I hadn't researched what eats foxes yet because this was kind of sprung on me with no warning, also "hi" is an emote on my msn and therefore doesn't show so I'm not typing like a chav I promise):
Alexandria Web-:
ok, well since the hunts ended the population has boomed and they don't have a natural predetor, what else are they supposed to do? At least it's humane. It's sad but it has to happen to keep the population controled, it's the same as any other animal we introduced into the eco system that shouldn't be here.
Allyson says:
(angry face emote)
Alexandria Web- says:
I'm sorry but it's true, foxes are an unatural part of the eco system and there isn't anytng to stop them over populating. It's sad that someone had to die for people to realise that, and it's sad the foxes have to die. But we as humans put them there in the first place. I'm not advocating wiping them all out, just controling them.
Allyson says:
so you dont agree with reintroduction of extinct species tyhen
Alexandria Web- :
I do, but you can't just reintroduce them willy nilly. Wolves would be a great reintroduction, because then they'd control foxes and deer etc for us, wch is natural and the way it should be, but you'd also have to bring bears back soon after because you'd likely end up with too many wolves otherwise.
Allyson says:
Hang on a minute so the Foxes dont belong here and have nothing to controle there population so its ok to kill them
Well with my eye colour and other features I dont belong here either so maybe we should just get rid of me too
Alexandria Web-says:
Foxes were brought here unaturally in large ammounts with no natural predetors. That's totally different to Humans GRADULLY ending up here, where we did have natural predetors when we got here, and yeah actually we are overpopulating (don't you watch the news?) Aren't you in favour of all ts replanting native trees and stuff and getting rid of the forgien species? Exactly same, only trees aren't
fluffy and cute.
Allyson says:
ok lets get rid of all non native species then. Pretty boring diet cabbage , leeks and grain nom nom nom
The truth is we have briought lots of things to this country that do not belong here, and we cant really do much about it now.
Yes we did bring the foxes here but it isnt the foxes fault it was acting on instinct, and I think it is wrong to kill it for that
We dont even kill people who murder, but we can kill animals who harm peiople
Oh sorry thats different because they are just dumb animals
Alexandria Web- says:
Mam you're clearly not understanding here. It's ok to bring tngs in, but it has to be done GRADULY so that stuff doesn't go bannanas and take over (rabbits, bindweed, Sycamore trees), because that unbalences the eco system and causes other tngs to end up becoming extint because of it ( there red squirrels). I know the foxes are acting on instinct, but if we don't keep their population under
control (wch is what wolves, bears and other tngs we wiped out that eat foxes would do) then we'll loose other species that we're trying to save (voles, hedehogs etc). Also you know I don't tnk their dumb animals
Allyson says:
I understand perfectly what you are saying and I agree with you. If species were introduced nowadays they would hopefully be reintroduced gradually(Beavers in Scotland)
However the foxes, Grey Squirells, Japenese Bindweed and Sycamore have not been introduced now they were intriduced some toime ago when people didnt really care as long as they got what they wanted. You can not bl;ame the animakls for this.
I agree we should have natural predators for them eg wolves
but this wont hgappen because the rich folk are worried the wolves woill kill the dear and they wont be able to charge people lots of money to kill them instead
despite the fact that they have to have a dear cull every year because there are too many
Alexandria Web- says:
I'm not blaming the animals? How did you end up coming to that conclusion.? You still aren't etting ts at all. Foexes were introduced, ok? With me there? For hundreds of years there wasn't a problem with them because fox hunting (wch I still tnk is cruel and wrong) kept the popultion under control in the absense of a natural predetor. Fox hunting ends, fox population boom happens, allready
endangered species become even more endangered.
What do you do?
Just leave voles and other endangeroud animals that foxes eat to become extinct?
Chase the foxes around and say "Sorry sir you can't eat that"
Allyson says:
Inroduce a ntural preadator as you said, but as I said this isnt going to happen
Alexandria Web- says:
Also can you keep your predudice against people with more money than you out of ts, it has notng to with it. Who was it wanted to bring wolves back? Oh yeah a rich guy.
Allyson says:
Well much as I would like to continue this I have to go now
see you later
bye bye
Alexandria Web- says:
So if a natural predetor isn't introduced what do you do?
Allyson says:
I dont kbnow, but we dont kill murders so why do we think it is ok to kill animals
see you later
Call me crazy but surely corporal punishment *salutes* and people with lots of money are completely separate issues?
The worst bit is I KNOW she's said most of that because she just doesn't understand, and I know she doesn't understand because those are the exact same arguments I'd have used when I didn't understand and I was being brain washed by PETA (don't even get me started on them, that's another rant competley).
So yeah, that was Tuesday, and today is Sunday, what made me post?
The realisation that I hadn't hit like on "Lets keep fox hunting banned", I had actually hit like on "We fucking hate the Tories for no apparent reason, and we're going to keep on eating up every single anti-conservative block o' text the daily fail writes with a fucking spoon" (clearly that's far to many letters for the character count so I guess that's why they went for the first tittle).
Today they posted a link to this:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/7/stop-the-tory-persecution-of-foxes/268220126/taf
For those of you that are link-o-phobes, it's THE most un-biased petition IN THE WORLD EVER [/sarcasam]
What it really is infact is this:
"Not satisfied with a planned UK badger cull, it has been reported today that Boris Johnson Tory MP & Lord Mayor of London is calling for an urban fox cull. This follows media reports of a fox entering an East London house through open patio doors to a room where the child's parents were sat watching TV & found it's way to an upstairs bedroom where it simultaneously "mauled" 9 month old twin girls sleeping in separate cots, thus acting in every way against the natural instinct of foxes.
Media coverage to this incident have been biased inconsistent & intent on creating public hysteria towards a wild species that has coexisted peacefully alongside us in towns & cities since records on urban fox populations were made in 1930. Far from being an urban pest their main diet source is the rats that ARE considered a real problem in inner-city areas.
Wildlife experts including Terry Nutkins, Bill Oddie John Bryant & the RSPCA are speaking out in defence of foxes but it is well known that the Tory Party led by (hunter) David Cameron are happy to demonise foxes as part of their plan to repeal the Hunting with Dogs Act, & will take advantage of & fuel the ongoing media witch hunt.
Just a week ago a licensed gun owner shot & killed 12 people & injured 24 others in Cumbria. Just a day later David Cameron released a statement saying there would be "no knee-jerk reaction to ban shot guns" so it is quite ironic that after just one instance of a (yet to be adequately proven) fox attack a Tory MP is calling for a nationwide cull.
Conveniently by making a larger issue of fox populations this will act as an opening for the Conservatives to bring the pledged repeal of the ban to the House of Commons. It's a lame attempt to appear as though they are acting in the interests of the British public (75% of the population are currently against repeal) whilst the real issue & motive is their support of bloodsports!!
Please note, I have started this petition independently of Save Me. Org but I believe I speak for a large proportion of Save Me supporters & anti-hunt campaigners. My purpose is to send a link of this petition to the Conservatives, Lib Dems & also to the Nations media who's demonisation of foxes & unbalanced coverage of this story is leading to the extermination of foxes."
Why is mauled in air quotes? Are they trying to imply that actually what really happened was that the foxes tickled the child?
Yes, I know that what happened isn't typical fox behaviour and yes I do think it sucks that it took that to happen for people to realise that we simply have to many foxes, but surely that's what it is, a wake up call?
Notice no actual quote of what the wildlife experts said (I find it rather hard to believe Bill Oddie would be anti-cull since this is the man who thinks mink need to be eradicated since they aren't native and hates cat owners that don't bring their cats in at night).
No sources on any of the statistics, or any of the other "facts".
But the main thing is...People still use online petition sites? WTF?
So this is what I posted on the wall:
"foxes have no natural predators, they kill smaller, endangered animals, so in order for the smaller animals not to be wiped out we humans (ie: the reason the foxes have no natural predators) , have to control the fox populations in the way that lynxes or wolves would.
At last this way we're doing it humanely rather than going back to the barbarity of fox hunting.
Also what is with all the Tory prejudice on this page?"
To which I got back:
"@Louise.Are you also sayi9ng that ALL UK BIRDS OF PREY should be controlled too??as they too have no natural predators,but do kill rare species such as Woodlark,Stonechats etc.you cannort play god and pick and choose which species has the right to live and which has the right to die..I would happily chat to you on this subject as i have 30 years experience on it."
Correct me if I'm wrong but birds of prey have never had a predator bar humanity? Therefore they're taking their intended place in the eco system?
Isn't not culling foxes "picking and choosing which species has the right to live and which has the right to die?
Also is that someone pulling the "I'M OLDER THAN YOU I KNOW BETTER!" card on me? Oh dear *sigh*
"@ louise. Why against the tories? Camron is a lying snake. Think he's telling porkies about the deficit, cut public spending and cut taxes on mansion tax, people earning under 10k? If uk is that much in debt why cut taxes? He's saying this to make labour look worse than they are. He's a snake and can't be trusted. Oh well done to the uk government for helping with the bp crisis as we do earn large shares in bp. Come obama kick camrons ass."
I did what I always do in internet debates when someone tries to pull the "WAAAAAH YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE I SAAAAAAY SO!" card on me and asked for a source (coincidently if anybody wants sources on how the eco system works, I'm only to happy to give them and point you in the direction of my Science teachers from Primary School) apparently:
"@ louise its fact and you will see it sooner or later Cameron will be exposed for the scum he is. I don't like any politicians but Cameron and what the tories stand for (not just the fox hunting) is shocking. Christ he couldn't even win majority even though Brown done an awful job."
Best bit, apparently this guy is a Professor...Says a lot for our education system doesn't it?
At some point a girl with one of those cliché emo angles pics cuts in with:
"Killing any animal is wrong !! !! Whether it was a fox or not who attacked the brats it te PARENTS fault for being dumbass's !! If an animal kills a human good on it !! Because at the end of the day humans are killing animals every second. It's a bit of get their own back !"
I having just read THE MOST IDIOTIC THING ON THE PLANET snap. I admit, it was wrong of me to type back "Well I hope you're happy when one day a cow or something tramples you to death" (I don't wish anybody dead), but for goodness sake is that not the stupidest thing you've ever read?
Although I suppose it did save me the hassle of hitting the "un-fan" button or whatever it is these days as the page owner took offence, not before I got this though:
"Louise, you don't seem to be able to connect the media attempts to vilify foxes with the Tory pledge to repeal the ban. A headline in Fridays Guardian read "A cull of urban foxes won't work until townspeople distrust them as much as country folk" I am reading this as if it saying "a repeal of the hunting ban will not work until townspeople hate them as much as pro-hunt" because that is the only way I can rationalise the media witch hunt!!
Oh & BTW I don't know if it has escaped your attention but we would not be campaigning to protect the hunting act if the Tory party had not pledged to repeal it!!"
Can somebody give me an ACTUAL source on this "Tory pledge"? Because the only ones I've seen were posted on that page and were from the Sun and the Daily Mail. If anybody can give me an actual source I'll retract everything I said about the Conservatives.
